Subjects: Labor’s visa and immigration policy shambles.
E&OE.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Peter Dutton is being slammed for calling for the Government to stop granting visas to Palestinians fleeing Gaza, claiming it’s a national security risk. The Opposition Leader joins us now live.
Pete, good morning to you. Good to see you.
PETER DUTTON:
‘Morning Karl.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Are you heartless, a heartless racist? Do you have any humanity?
PETER DUTTON:
I just think all the usual political tripe – put it to one side. We have to make decisions, and they can be tough decisions, but decisions that are in our country’s best interests. We have one of the most generous humanitarian programmes in the world, but people go through checks and verifications before they come here. If we have a well-managed migration programme, it can work in our country’s best interests. That’s been our experience largely in the past.
But what’s happened here Karl, is that the Government has brought people in from a war zone. In some cases, they haven’t even done face-to-face interviews and that is without precedent. Thirteen hundred people have come here on tourist visas, again, without precedent. This all happened under Andrew Giles, who of course has now been sacked as the Immigration Minister because he was the guy who released 152 hardened criminals from immigration detention when it turned out he didn’t need to do so. I think it’s a massive, but latest mess of the Albanese Government and it puts our country at risk.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Okay. So you discussed it with Shadow Cabinet and everyone in the room agreed? It’s not a captain’s call?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Karl, it’s not an issue that goes to Shadow Cabinet. I know that sort of insider talk’s been going on, but I’ve got a great national security team with James Paterson and with Andrew Hastie. We’ve had countless conversations about this topic. I think the most important element here is what has the Government done? They’ve changed the policy – so they’ve said that they will bring people into Australia who are sympathisers with a listed terrorist organisation.
Could you imagine if we were proposing to bring people in who were sympathetic to another listed terrorist organisation, like Al-Qaeda or ISIL or ISIS? It’s completely unacceptable. And the Government’s trying to patch this up, but they are putting our country at risk. We can take people in a measured, responsible way, that’s not what they’ve done.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Okay. It’s just about the process. So did you discuss it in Shadow Cabinet because Matt Canavan said you did, or was it a captain’s call?
PETER DUTTON:
Again Karl, I’m not talking about internal discussions. It’s a discussion not for Shadow Cabinet, to be honest. It’s a discussion with the national security team, and I’ve done that…
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Alright.
PETER DUTTON:
…It’s in our country’s best interest, there’s no question. Not only that, I’ve been saying this since October, so I don’t think it comes as any surprise to anyone. The Government yesterday – I mean the Prime Minister actually misled Parliament yesterday when he said that the same process applies in relation to bringing these people out of Gaza as applied when we took people from Syria. That is just not true.
Twelve months after we took that decision, I was still being criticised for not bringing people here quickly enough. We didn’t process people in Syria. We took them to northern Iraq. We did face-to-face interviews, we took biometrics tests, and we checked that with our American partners.
The Government has done none of that, and I’m sure the vast majority of these people are just innocent people fleeing a war zone. But our country’s best interest is served when we know who is coming here and when we have a proper process to exclude those who are sympathisers of a listed of terrorist organisations.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Okay. So, Mike Burgess issued a warning to tone the rhetoric down. You waited a grand total of three days before you drove a wedge through some of the community.
PETER DUTTON:
But Karl, again, it’s just not the case. My job is to act in our country’s best interests. I did it as Home Affairs Minister and as Immigration Minister. We ran the second biggest humanitarian intake in the world, but we did it in a responsible way. You can’t bring people out of a war zone onto tourist visas, no less, which is without precedent…
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Okay.
PETER DUTTON:
…But again, this is a decision of Andrew Giles. And he’s now been sacked, rightly…
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Yeah.
PETER DUTTON:
…But the Government’s trying to clean up this mess.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
So I get the need to protect Australians and the process has faced many questions, important ones. But these are the same systems you trusted when you were in Government, despite what you’re saying…
PETER DUTTON:
They’re not, Karl…
KARL STEFANOVIC:
So, suddenly, you don’t…
PETER DUTTON:
They’re just not.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
The reality is, suddenly, you don’t trust ASIO anymore.
PETER DUTTON:
No Karl, quite the opposite. ASIO’s fantastic. I appointed Mike Burgess, but Mike can only act according to the policy of the Government of the day. It was not our policy in Government to bring people in who were sympathisers of a listed terrorist organisation…
KARL STEFANOVIC:
But isn’t ASIO the gatekeeper in this process? I’m confused.
PETER DUTTON:
…It is the Albanese Government’s policy to bring people in.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Isn’t ASIO the gatekeeper?
PETER DUTTON:
ASIO acts according to the Government policy and the Government policy has changed. They haven’t even done face-to-face interviews with some of these people, which again, is without precedent. That is a political decision. We never did that when we were in Government. We brought people in with face-to-face interviews. As I said, we took people out of Syria, staged them in Iraq, did the interviews, rejected people…
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Understand that but…
PETER DUTTON:
…Who we thought were a concern…
KARL STEFANOVIC:
But by saying this…
PETER DUTTON:
…And we didn’t bring them.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Peter, by saying this, aren’t you eroding ASIO’s credibility in being the gatekeeper to people coming into this country?
PETER DUTTON:
No. ASIO shouldn’t be the scapegoat for a bad Government and a bad Prime Minister. The Prime Minister yesterday, in what he said to Parliament, he either knowingly misled Parliament, or he just didn’t have a clue what he was talking about. And what we’ve seen with this Government is that they’ve released criminals unnecessarily from immigration detention, they’ve got boats arriving up in the North that they know nothing about, and they’re now bringing people here…
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Alright.
PETER DUTTON:
…They don’t know what to do with because they don’t – they abolished the temporary protection visa, which is actually the visa that they could have brought people on if the proper checks had been done…
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Ok, so…
PETER DUTTON:
…So I think the Prime Minister’s all over the place here and that’s why we’re in trouble.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Is it all refugees you want to stop, or just the everyday Gazan variety?
PETER DUTTON:
We should stop people coming in from a war zone, Karl. So that’s what we should do, because we don’t know if the proper checks haven’t been done, the one per cent, or whatever it might be who pose a threat. You bring 3,000 people in, let’s say 99 per cent are good. If one per cent, 30 people are questionable, or sympathisers with a listed terrorist organisation, how on earth is that in our country’s best interests? When we checked the people coming out of Syria, we did it with America because they had the biggest intelligence holdings in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Americans don’t have the security holdings and the intelligence holdings out of the Middle East like they did. The Israelis do, ironically enough, but none of those checks have been done. We can bring people here, we can be generous, but it needs to be done in the right way, and it just hasn’t been done.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Alright. One final question – you obviously don’t really care about the Muslim vote. They’re not going to vote for you anyway, let’s be realistic about it. But the perception of a leader who doesn’t have humanity can have wider ramifications for you.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Karl, it’s just ridiculous. My interest here is in making sure that our national interest is served and that is for every Australian, regardless of somebody’s political, or religious belief. I don’t believe in our country’s best interests to bring people in who haven’t been…face-to-face interviews haven’t even been conducted. We can’t verify identification in some cases, they’ve been brought in on a tourist visa, which again, is unprecedented.
My job is to protect all Australians, and that’s exactly what I’m doing. So, I’m not discriminating on any basis. Happy to see people brought in from the Middle East if they’ve been properly checked, or from Americas, or from Asia, or wherever it might be. So that sort of line, frankly, is beneath you or any other commentator. We take decisions that are in our country’s best interest. That is not what Anthony Albanese has done, and that’s why I think he’s properly condemned in the latest botched public policy effort of the Albanese Government.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Alright. Good to talk to you as always, Pete. We’ll see you tomorrow on the show. Thank you.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Karl. You too mate.
[ends]